Brand new Diversity Officer wants to fix deferred maintenance at UvA

Foto: Machiel Keestra

The occupiers of the Maagdenhuis demanded more diversity. The report of Gloria Wekker also stated that ‘white males’  were too much in charge at the university. Now you have been appointed as an older, white man in such an important key position. Was this the best choice?
‘That is a legitimate question, which I have also asked myself. I also discussed it with various contacts around me: I think I can mean something in this position, but should I really want this? The answer was yes, we need allies like you. I have the experience as a Faculty Diversity Officer, where I gathered people around me with different backgrounds in a team. You don't do a job like that alone: I'm the spider in the web, connecting people and providing structure.’

‘Secondly, I am one of the few men in the field of diversity officers. It is a predominantly female playing field. I suspect this is because most men my age are already in a certain position and have already secured their certainties. They don't experience certain diversity issues first hand, so they may feel less of a need to do something about them. Of course they have sympathy for the cause, but the need to be actively involved is not so great. On the contrary, it may be an advantage that I am just such an old white man, who may be able to spur similar men into action a little more easily.’

Did the fact that you have a Jewish background and a partner of color play a part into these considerations?

‘I am second generation, my mother came out of the war an orphan. I have known since childhood that it is not evident that everyone can participate in everything. The Jewish community, too, has all kinds of forms of exclusion, up to quite drastic, shall we say. I myself had to search for a long time for the role that that background plays in my life and how exactly I wanted to integrate it. So I can imagine similar questions playing out in other people with minority status. If you're black, or in a wheelchair, it's even more visible: I don't necessarily want to compare myself to that, but it has made me more sensitive.’

Is the UvA already diverse enough?

‘With some things, the university is already well on its way. But the environment is also changing all the time, with globalization and internationalization, and so as a university you have to constantly rethink how you deal with such a changing composition of students and teachers. In some areas, the university still has some overdue maintenance to do. In Physics, for example, the balance between men and women seems pretty good, until you zoom in: then you see that in certain courses the majority is male, or vice versa. Why is that, and is it desirable? We also see that there are still few women in the higher positions. Aren't we losing a lot of talent this way?’

Sometimes the criticism is that when it comes to diversity the focus is very much on gender.

‘There is increasing attention for other groups, for example first generation students, students with a migrant or other socio-economic background. In the area of gender, we have the figures available immediately. It is also the most common difference between people, non-binary aside for a moment. Recently we have been trying to get a better grip on the other diverse groups, but that is difficult: we know that roughly fifty percent of the population is male or female. Then it is easier to aim for numbers as a good reflection of society. But we have fewer numbers when it comes to origin or disability, for example. What percentage of the student population or employee group at the UvA consists of Chinese or wheelchair users? And is this percentage representative for Dutch society, or for Amsterdam - or yet another population? The Cultural Barometer of the CBS would provide such figures, but there was discussion about the categories. Such a collection of data would provide new insights, which we could use to make and monitor policy.

What are you going to do differently from your predecessor Anne de Graaf, who in previous interviews said she wanted to listen first and foremost?

‘That's not entirely true. Anne de Graaf was really pioneering, as the first Diversity Officer. She took office just after the Wekker report, and there was a lot of uneasiness at the university. That's why she started talking a lot, with faculties, students, with the student and works councils. But she also started practical initiatives: look at the mentor programs Get Ready, for first generation students, and Meet your Mentor, for students with a migration background who are at the end of their bachelor or master and want to orient themselves to the labor market and workshops for employees. And she has also been able to help think about issues such as the CvB's Diversity Memorandum.’

What exactly are your plans?

‘The range of diversity that receives attention at the UvA could be expanded, so more attention could be paid to people with disabilities and chronic illnesses, for example. I would like to start an extensive sounding board group for this purpose and strengthen the support of the Faculty Diversity Officers with often small jobs of only 4 to 8 hours per week. Then I will also have a little more clout as Central Diversity Officer. In addition, of course, I only started a few weeks ago. So one of my spearheads is that we need to get more visibility at the UvA with who we are, as I just said. Who are we missing, where are the bottlenecks? The number of students and also staff with a migration background is not yet where it should be. The difference between the VU and the UvA in that is big. That raises the question of why there are groups that feel less at home with us and what we can do about it.’

How do you look at targets and quotas?

‘We want to eventually reach fiftyfifty in terms of female professors. We are on our way, but we are a long way from that: if we continue along the line, we will only be at fifty percent female professors by 2040. That, of course, is not fast enough. So targets can be important instruments for monitoring progress. Quotas, I think, are a tricky subject. It also came up in Gloria Wekker's report. I think quotas are relevant if everything else has not worked, and we are definitely not at that point yet.’

Numerous groups at the UvA are calling for the ‘decolonization of the university’ and for a ‘safe space’. What do you think about that?

'The recently published report on the decolonization war in Indonesia showed us that sometimes it takes a while before we realize what situation we are in. At the university, for example, it has become clear in recent years that knowledge production is not neutral and objective: the positionality of the scientist, for example their background or beliefs, can influence the research they do, the methods used or priorities chosen. We try to make people at the university aware of the fact that science is human work, where stereotypes and prejudices unfortunately play just as much of a role. Other perspectives can help show such biases. Regarding the ‘safe space’; the discussion is being conducted as if some kind of fence is being put around the university where you are not allowed to say a lot of things anymore. That is a misconception. Actually, it's about having a place where you can hold discussions in a safe environment and reflect on the stereotypes and prejudices that affect us as scientists. It can also be about the use of language, about someone saying that certain words are hurtful: you can only make such statements in a safe environment.’

During the opening of the academic year, Geert ten Dam, the chair of the university, said, 'We cannot afford that certain themes or perspectives are increasingly difficult to discuss.’

‘It may be that in some places students have said they do not want to hear or discuss certain subjects, but fortunately I do not see a broad trend in this. I think that we as a university should in fact be, in a sense, a place where we learn to have a critical but rational debate with each other and that we should train our students in that.’