New UvA-dean of Economics and Business: ‘We can become even better’

Without seeming to put much effort in it, the conversation with the new dean of Economics and Business Administration (EB) is pleasant from the very first minute. A certain Limburg good-naturedness hangs over the conversation table, a slight grin, but also ambition: the new dean just keeps on working during the interview. Tapping away furiously on his laptop, he answers some questions. ‘It’s not that my dream has come true now, but I did want to become dean. I was chairman of the Amsterdam School of Economics (ASE) for more than thirteen years and of course I saw that Han van Dissel would be retiring, so when I was approached by a headhunter whether I would be interested in this job, I thought it would be a nice challenge.

The conversation seems to start, the blue sandwich box is pushed aside. The UvA caterer has little use for the new dean: he brings his own sandwiches, brown and rye bread. Always with peanut butter. Not from Calvé or anything like that, because they also contain other ingredients than peanuts. ‘I like pure peanut butter. Very healthy and tasty. Today I also brought an apple and a kiwi, and sometimes a pear too.’ How different such a lunch conversation is with Roel Beetsma (Sittard, 1967) than with the departed dean Han van Dissel, who spent his lunch break smoking on the little square in front of the main entrance to the E-building, a Marlboro between his fingers. Snatching a cigarette was no problem at all, nor was having a cosy chat or going over some gossip. Beetsma: ‘Han is jovial, he has a sense of humor and laughs a lot. I am more businesslike and take notes on everything. In a meeting I go through the subjects point by point. The meetings with Han were always very pleasant, everyone looked forward to them. But who knows, with me we might also have a laugh, we will see.’

How did the transfer go from Van Dissel to you?

‘He didn’t hand me over on paper or anything like that, that’s not his style. We talked a few times about the things that are going on here and he introduced me to the works council (OR in Dutch) and the student council (SR in Dutch). I concluded from these conversations that Han has left the organization well behind. I didn’t find any skeletons in the cupboard so far and I don’t expect to either.’

How did the first six weeks as dean go?

‘Pretty well. Of course I have been working for a long time, but I found out that there were still things I didn’t know. There are 450 fte’s working here, so you can’t just know everything. For example, I did not know the Amsterdam Business School (ABS) very well yet and I also did not know how we are organized at a detailed level. The past few weeks I walked randomly through the E and M-buildings, knocked on many doors for a chat and sometimes heard about very interesting research. I have already brought together a few researchers who didn’t know that they were doing similar research.’

What kind of image did you have of the deanery?

‘I thought I would be the manager, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. A manager has a bit more of a hands-on role, I believe. The university secretary said shortly after I took office: “You are now a director.” I believe that a director has a slightly broader view than a manager, a director is concerned with strategy. Where do you want to go as an organization, that question.’

Fire away. Where do you want to go with EB?

‘My predecessors left behind a good organization, but I think that the potential is even higher than we have shown so far. We can and must become even better. We are in good financial shape. That makes everything easier, because it allows us to invest. We invest in climate economics, for which Rick van der Ploeg has been appointed as a university professor. We will also continue to invest in areas such as operations research, (big) data science, machine learning and artificial intelligence, where we have already attracted very good people.’

Where do you want to go in the field of education?

‘I want to focus more on digital & blended learning and on more collaboration between the School of Economics (ASE) and the business school (ABS) on the one hand, and on more collaboration with other faculties on the other.’

How important is competitiveness to EB?

‘It is important, but it’s not like I’m comparing us to Harvard. That is not realistic. But it doesn’t mean we are not good. I do look at the rankings, but I also see their limitations. It is always about the criteria used in such lists. Sometimes they are based on pure economic research, sometimes the research is much broader and it still ends up in the same list.’

Maybe not Harvard, but the European top then?

‘I think EB is among the top 10 in Europe. We are able to attract amazingly good people because we have a good reputation and are based in Amsterdam. Add to that the role EB plays in the public debate, in scientific journals, and the cooperation with prestigious external partners, such as Nationale Nederlanden, and you belong to Europe’s leading economics faculties.’

The large growth in the number of internationals is one of your challenges. Has the Carré Theatre already been booked for the coming enrollment of first-year students?

‘We are still considering whether we should rent external halls, but internationalization is being made into a problem that does not exist, especially in our field. Economics and business administration are very international fields. Just look at the United States or the United Kingdom, where the top universities are also very international. They attract the best students from all over the world. I want the same for EB. The Netherlands has a very open economy that is in competition with the whole world. Especially for our economy, it is important to attract good scientists and students from abroad. Let me put it this way: the Dutch economy benefits greatly from international students. Incidentally, I want to make a case for bringing in good Dutch students, let that be clear.’

Your predecessor regularly travelled abroad to recruit students. Will you continue to do so?

‘I will certainly continue to do so. Together with Rotterdam and Maastricht, our Business School has a Triple-A accreditation, which means we are recognized by the Association to Advance Collegiate Business Schools (AACBS), by the Association of MBA’s (AMBA) and by the European Quality Improvement System (EQUIS). This means that our Business School is not only recognized worldwide, but also well-known. We actively pursue this goal. A return to a more national course is, in my opinion, a rearguard action.’

In previous years EB often worked together with OnCampus, a Cambridge-based company that prepares internationals for a study at the UvA. This also attracted criticism, because students first followed this course but then sometimes failed to pass the numerus fixus. Will you continue with OnCampus?

‘I will certainly continue with OnCampus. A foundation year is indeed expensive, but in the United States or the United Kingdom you pay much more. Incidentally, the numerus fixus only applies to Business Administration and prospective students know that too. If they take one of these years and cannot start Business Administration because of the numerus fixus, we guarantee them that they can start Economics & Business Economics as an alternative. So it is not as if they have made costs for nothing.’

Recently, news came out about the law faculty where many lecturers in tax law were losing time to their jobs in the commercial Zuid-as. This also happens at your faculty. Is there anything you can or want to do about it?

‘I think working with external parties and companies in the private sector is very good. That is where the money is earned that gives our study programmes quality. Take the aforementioned cooperation with Nationale Nederlanden. We are working with them on research into the determinants of life expectancy. That is an important and good cooperation, but you must always ensure that the science remains independent. The same applies to fiscal economics as to tax law: it is difficult to find full-time lecturers or professors because many of them also have good jobs in the commercial Zuid-as or elsewhere, but it is certainly not the case that companies determine who gets an appointment at fiscal economics. Absolutely not. We determine whether someone is professor-worthy.’